Forum:Automatic wiki creation
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Inquisitor Sasha (talk) 22:33, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
We should strongly consider adding functionality to the farm management extension to allow wiki users to create new wikis on their own. To address any issues with wiki spam, we could probably set a log that would strictly keep track of all wikis created by each user and in general. We could probably set up some sort of bot to handle bureaucrat promotion on the wiki for the creator. Inquisitor Sasha (talk) 22:33, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
- I believe, to the best of my knowledge, that this idea was proposed amongst the stewards at the conception of Orain, but was turned down in favor of the current method in order to allow the Organization to monitor wiki creation and avoid creating "useless" or otherwise "dangerous" wikis (i.e. illegal, promoting illegal activity, etc.). Yes, we could go through and delete those wikis, but it's best if they aren't created in the first place. Good idea, though. If others have a differing opinion, please feel free to share it and possibly some solutions to the problem(s) with automatic wiki creation. -- Joe G. (Talk) 23:44, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
- I guess that might put a limit on such content. Though, just having an actively monitored wiki creation log would probably solve most issues there could be, if problematic wikis were quickly deleted. From a legal perspective, I'm sure that it's fine as long as you remove the content as soon as you find out about it. It's possible that someone might advocate illegal activity on an existing wiki regardless. The main issue I see would be test wikis of people just testing the service, but they could be quickly deleted. I think that the ability for people to just jump in an create wikis would be an attraction over other wiki hosts that allow people to create wikis automatically. We should aim to get people before they get sucked into the hollow promises of Wikia. They claim to offer so much, but it's really nothing and people will end up regretting their decision to go to Wikia. Inquisitor Sasha (talk) 01:17, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
- I must say I am in agreement with Sasha.--Tyreek (talk) 14:24, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, I would say that it is essential to the future of Orain as a viable host, considering the long delays that there have been in getting wikis set up and establishing administrative rights for the creators. Dondrekhan requested Encyclopedia Muricana on the 23rd, and of the 30th, it still has not been created. There seems to be an issue among the admins over duplicate wikis, but it's not an issue. If people want to try to take on making a clone wiki, just let them. If they are successful, then it's not a big deal. If not, then just delete the wiki when it remains empty. I realize that there is concern over "illegal" content, but it's not serious. The chance of someone making an illegal wiki is low, and even if they do, the admins are not responsible for it, assuming that they remove it when they are notified of the illegal activity. It's a low risk, there's no liability, and it just gets in the way of allowing people to create wikis. Creation needs to be user initiated. I'd be willing to get more involved with helping out if it were. Right now the risk of self sabotage by the service is the only thing that makes me hesitate. I helped greatly at Wikkii until they ran themselves into the ground. Inquisitor Sasha (talk) 14:41, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
- I must say I am in agreement with Sasha.--Tyreek (talk) 14:24, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
- I guess that might put a limit on such content. Though, just having an actively monitored wiki creation log would probably solve most issues there could be, if problematic wikis were quickly deleted. From a legal perspective, I'm sure that it's fine as long as you remove the content as soon as you find out about it. It's possible that someone might advocate illegal activity on an existing wiki regardless. The main issue I see would be test wikis of people just testing the service, but they could be quickly deleted. I think that the ability for people to just jump in an create wikis would be an attraction over other wiki hosts that allow people to create wikis automatically. We should aim to get people before they get sucked into the hollow promises of Wikia. They claim to offer so much, but it's really nothing and people will end up regretting their decision to go to Wikia. Inquisitor Sasha (talk) 01:17, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
- It's nothing against the idea but rather the technical behind it. Sure, automatic creation reduces work on the responsible group (for now, Stewards) but seriously does apply more pressure to sysadmins in case of a wiki needing to be deleted which is a practise only done once by me. In addition the cases of wikis being created causing legal issues, Orain at the moment really can not afford this as we have four staff members - One is inactive, two are purely technical and one deals with technical stuff and identification (thus point of contact for legal requests). I'll let Kudu comment but that is my view. John (talk) 14:36, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
- There are no "legal issues." You're not responsible for what people do as long as you take action against it when you are notified about it. The fact that Orain is understaffed is also a reason for making wiki creation user initiated. People aren't going to go with us to host their wiki if they have to wait two or three days at a minimum after a request when they can just go to another service and have the wiki created instantly. As I mentioned above, Dondrekhan has been waiting since March 23rd for Encyclopedia Muricana to be created. There hasn't even been a "we're busy but we're going to make it when we get the opportunity" message. People aren't going to wait. They might give a day, but after that, they're just going to go to Wikia and get locked into their BS. Inquisitor Sasha (talk) 14:48, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
- Good morning. I'm not going to further comment on the regards to the wait time, but rather note that you likely are not a licensed, practicing legal professional in either the United States of America or Canada, therefore Orain cannot take you at your word with regards to what the organization would legally be responsible for. The staff members of Orain are looking into the possibility of automatic wiki creation, but part of it is a legality issue. Should it be determined that from a technical aspect, it would be manageable, Orain will move into phases of discussing with legal counsel the (potential) ramifications of such a system. Most wiki requests are actually handled promptly, but in the past week or so they have lacked because of unavailability of staff members along with other factors. Orain does not just create a wiki without checking into it, several checks are done to ensure the wiki is legitimate, does not already exist elsewhere (unless the case is a fork), etc. In conclusion, we appreciate your suggestion and are working on it. While I do not expect this to be implemented in the near future, it is being evaluated for the later future of Orain. Thank you, -- Joe G. (Talk) 15:41, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
- I understand that you all were busy. That is ok. But it means that there should be additional people who can create wikis. I understand that I'm not a lawyer and I agree that you should meet with a lawyer before making any important legal decisions. I'm sure that they would tell you that you'd be fine for just about anything provided that you remove it promptly if notified. Inquisitor Sasha (talk) 00:23, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
- Eight days is a really long time to wait for a wiki... I vote for automatic. Dondrekhan (talk) 13:16, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
- I understand that you all were busy. That is ok. But it means that there should be additional people who can create wikis. I understand that I'm not a lawyer and I agree that you should meet with a lawyer before making any important legal decisions. I'm sure that they would tell you that you'd be fine for just about anything provided that you remove it promptly if notified. Inquisitor Sasha (talk) 00:23, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
- Good morning. I'm not going to further comment on the regards to the wait time, but rather note that you likely are not a licensed, practicing legal professional in either the United States of America or Canada, therefore Orain cannot take you at your word with regards to what the organization would legally be responsible for. The staff members of Orain are looking into the possibility of automatic wiki creation, but part of it is a legality issue. Should it be determined that from a technical aspect, it would be manageable, Orain will move into phases of discussing with legal counsel the (potential) ramifications of such a system. Most wiki requests are actually handled promptly, but in the past week or so they have lacked because of unavailability of staff members along with other factors. Orain does not just create a wiki without checking into it, several checks are done to ensure the wiki is legitimate, does not already exist elsewhere (unless the case is a fork), etc. In conclusion, we appreciate your suggestion and are working on it. While I do not expect this to be implemented in the near future, it is being evaluated for the later future of Orain. Thank you, -- Joe G. (Talk) 15:41, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
- There are no "legal issues." You're not responsible for what people do as long as you take action against it when you are notified about it. The fact that Orain is understaffed is also a reason for making wiki creation user initiated. People aren't going to go with us to host their wiki if they have to wait two or three days at a minimum after a request when they can just go to another service and have the wiki created instantly. As I mentioned above, Dondrekhan has been waiting since March 23rd for Encyclopedia Muricana to be created. There hasn't even been a "we're busy but we're going to make it when we get the opportunity" message. People aren't going to wait. They might give a day, but after that, they're just going to go to Wikia and get locked into their BS. Inquisitor Sasha (talk) 14:48, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
- After reading this thread, it seems to me that the main issue with our current model is the processing time, or turnaround. However, the main issue with user-created wikis is the lack of filtering. I propose a compromise solution: having a group with semi-elevated rights, say "wiki creators", who would be able to create wikis and grant admin and crat rights to their founder. That way, they would be able to clear the great majority of wiki requests, without needing access to special tools such as interwiki user rights management. This would require some slight modifications to the CreateWiki extension: nothing impossible, but some work nonetheless. Kudu ~I/O~ 18:02, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
- I really like that idea. It should be given to a fairly broad number of active users to help ensure prompt response times. I'm fine with waiting, but a lot of people aren't, especially if they end up going to some other instant service while they're waiting. Inquisitor Sasha (talk) 00:23, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
- I propose a slight caveat to that idea. To prevent this power falling into the hands of just anyone, it should be handed out to users with a proven interest in the betterment of Orain with a record relatively free of causing trouble on Orain Meta or other wikis on the farm. They should be autopatrolled at the least, and preferably be administrators of a wiki here on Orain or have solid credentials as administrators on other wiki sites, such as WMF wikia or Wikia. Arcane (talk) 15:10, 1 April 2014 (UTC)